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An increase in globalization and rapid advancement in technology. How do we keep up? What's the human impact? What's the risk? What's the national security risk? How do we ensure that policy can keep up with all of this and how can we make sure that, while we allow innovation to happen and growth to happen, that we keep the human aspect at the center? Today I'm joined by Kevin's really, Kevin used to be the chief Washington D C correspondent at Bloomberg and he's currently the media fellow Atlantic Council. He's traveled the world, he spent a lot of time with people and he's embedded at that intersection of people, policy and technology. These topics are more we explore with Kevin. You're listening to C suite blueprint, the show for C suite leaders. Here we discuss no bys approaches to organizational readiness and digital transformation. Let's start the show. Kevin, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I feel like I haven't done this in a while, so I'm a little bit nervous. No need to be neverous here is this is low stakes podcast here. That's what they all say, but we are going to talk about high stakes problem. So I thought one of the conversations we could discuss is globalization and one of the threads we could pull on that is supply chain. To start. You know, since I'm as a technologist, I get pulled into conversations talking about how can technology help supply chain, but I'm a firm believer that technology doesn't drive progress. Problems drive progress and only people changing, or large groups of people changing Um really drive progress. Now you're at the intersection. You're not only at the intersection of diplomacy and policy and technology, but you spent a lot of time with people on the campaign trail and just observing them. So I'm curious, you know, some of your thoughts as far as how big are the problems facing globalization right now? What are some of the challenges with supply chain when they're massive? But I also think that that means that there's massive opportunity. And so I remember, and you alluded to this, but I really kind of got my start as a print journalist and that's what I study when I when I went to Penn State... |
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University and, as you mentioned, I was embedded on political campaigns in in particular the two thousand and sixteen trump presidential campaign, and so I would travel all around the country like I wouldn't even know where I was half the time, but I would. I would see up close and unfiltered uh, the American workforce and just in the I didn't really know it at the time, but I could sense that it was in the middle of radical transform transformation and all of the globalization and all of the technology uh, and the different geopolitical shifts that kind of feel like tectonic plates moving and reverberating in real time that perhaps we don't always see because it's so disorienting sometimes, but I could sense it. And so as I developed my career, I really have always been interested it in policy, whether it's financial services, but in particular trade policy. and to be blunt with you, the U S China relationship is a lot more complicated than just soybeans and sorghum. It's technology, it's semiconductor chips and it's at the forefront not just of national security but global security. So I really feel like I've been embedded on the digital frontier these last few months to really develop and learn and listen from the experts about the problems that we face, not just today, but the problems that we face not just in the United States, but from from like minded strategic partners in order to meet the future of where this is all headed. Yeah, and those problems can really sneak up on us, I feel like, some of the challenges we face. I sometimes hear the people beating the drum of globalization is bad and I'm kind of of the thinking is not good or bad, it's just kind... |
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...of how are you leaning into it? I think that's such a great I mean, I always would say when when I was covering politics, it doesn't matter if I'm a Republican or a Democrat, my job is to report the news. Well, it doesn't matter my position on globalization or the contours of nationalism versus globalization. But let's just look at the environment that we're in right now, and it's a global environment and increasingly it's going to be out of this world, and I think that you're seeing that with so many outer space exploration companies that are at the intersection of a public private partnership. And so I think again, to to to really hone in on those dynamics and to understand them, uh, is something that not just Washington policymakers struggle with. But I think how all of these different worlds communicate, whether it's Washington with silicon valley or Silicon Valley with Beijing, or the United States with our European allies, all of that feedback loop and sometimes separate feedback loops. Um, that's where I think the future focus for uh, for the conversations of the next at least in my lifetime, are going to be centered. Yeah, and the challenges there's there are some executives that they're because of their industry and their business, they're forced to think about policy, they're forced to think about the global impact and but there's others that are just so damn busy running their business they can't really think about it and they're just driving for efficiency, they're driving for the best bottom line they can possibly have. Um. But that is that's where you run into problems with globalization because you're not looking forward into where this is going to go. Um. You know, I've been digging more into the concept of Tech State craft and you know, for the audience, maybe you know. Can you talk about that? You know what that is a little bit. I feel like I feel like that's part of my job now is to be like the translator in chief for all of these complications... |
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...in that well, hopefully, um. You know, look, I think at a very simple level, um, talking to a Bloomberg terminal audience, so to speak, it's really the intersection of geopolitics and global companies and technology that's driving inclusive innovation for the future and advancing freedom on the digital frontier, Um, through an alliance based approach and like minded strategic partner based approach. But from like a everyday person communications it's I mean I think we think, when people think of tech, they think of their they think of their smart watch or they think of their you know, their cell phone or the laptop that I'm on with you right now. Um, but it's not, you know, it's it's twenty leagues under the sea, where of the world's interconnectivity on the Internet is wrapped around in deep sea underwater cables. It's Um in massive Internet servers that are hovering in the upper galaxy UH providing internet connectivity. It's deep underground in the desert where semiconductor chips are being made and engineers are overseeing and manning robots. Um, and it's it's all of those things. It's in giant servers in Iowa cornfields that are housing massive data centers, and so I think it's in innovation labs where they're literally when we talked about autonomous vehicles, you know, think of the Horse and Buggy, where where they would have tolls and how how that was a source of revenue for the interstate highway systems. Will now they're developing highway systems that will actually get this, be able to charge your vehicle when you're driving. The road will become your gas station, you know, and so I think that's what tech diplomacy is,... |
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...um it's it's again preparing like minded nations to meet the future and also getting ahead of these problems. You know, I look at the Huawei five g situation and it's scary how that could have really snuck up on us and and if we didn't totally scary, that's the right word for it. It's absolutely terrifying, terrifying, terrifying. Yeah, and it's like how many more of those things are out there that, you know, people aren't thinking about that. We need to kind of have our head on a swivel about right. Well, I mean I think back to when and again when I so after I covered the trump campaign and I started traveling, had the privilege to travel around the world Um to cover UM policy as as a Washington correspondent, and one of the places that I traveled to was Columbia with former secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and I remember going on a run in Bogata and I was pairing for this interview and that's how I always you know, I'm going on my run and I'm looking around at all these stores and, George, I tell you, there were more Ahwei stores than I've ever seen apple stores here in Washington d C. And I was like I you know, and I don't want to date myself, but when I when I first started kind of getting into this world, I didn't even know how to pronounce Wawei, you know what I mean, let alone that did I understand the national security and Global Economic Security Um challenges that it poses and risk that it poses to the United States and our strategic partners. And so I think, you know, the difference, I get, what I've been learning about through my fellowships is Um that the difference between here in the United States is that we've we value innovation. You know, we value the public private partnership. Well, that doesn't exist under general secretary. She's Communist Party. That is every company... |
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...over there is the Communist Party. And so if you're interacting, and don't take my word for it, I just interviewed Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google, and he was explaining this to me and I was asking him about this and and I think you know, it poses significant risk. So I think now what you're starting to see, George, is that CEOS are are developing a China plan and they're developing a risk China, China risk contingency plan, because they want to be prepared. And if, if, if you look at what happened with Russia's aggression and Russia's war with the Ukraine, you're seeing that companies have to be prepared to take on that risk. Yeah, and the Bummer is that there's a lot of upside to them being able to operate as essentially just one organization. You know, if you if you want to change your strategy, you can change it. You don't have to wrangle a bunch of cats to to make it happen. And and, Um, there's a lot of up cipher who? What do you mean for China, for for for them to be since they, you know, they are essentially, you know, operating as one company. You know, they can, they can just really Um, make huge moves, whereas he or we're relying on individual companies to make their moves and lean into that, you know, corporate responsibilities really becoming national security? That, I wonder. Well, so we're gonna start to see more consortiums and more, you know, you know, groups stand up across these companies within the states to really, you know, do do this battle. And you know, I think, I think the one thing that America should be really proud of right and should that everyone can be proud of, is our innovation. I mean, whether it's the light bulb or walking on the moon, I mean our innovation has always kind of set us apart. It has set as apart, not kind of Advan it has set us apart, and so I think, but it's it's I think now you have to be inclusive when you innovate and I think that's... |
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...going to be the challenge, because we have those values here in the United States. Our European allies share those values, but there are authoritarianism regimes that don't value that, and so we have to lead by example, and I think that's, you know, that's the message that I've when I put on my reporter hat. That's the message that I'm getting from the C suite, from the innovators, from the chief technology officers and, bluntly, I think space in particular has really sort of been out front of this, so to speak, in many ways, because you're seeing various space companies and then they're all on the headlines, uh, working with NASA, working with the folks out in Pasadena California, Um and, and I think that's been interesting to watch and something that I've been watching and monitoring closely. What are you most excited about that? As far as the advancements and what's happening in space, I could talk about this. So I've always wanted to go to space. I put this out and I want to come back to I've I've started adding that. Um, you know so much. I think when people look up at the sky they see stars, they should also see jobs, because you know the supply chain. I think increasingly uh is is going to become between the US and the moon. It'll be UH. You'll be able to look at how different rare earth minerals, Um and other properties of various rare Earth Minerals Transform, whether it's at certain levels and outer space and in different places. And so I think, Um, you know, I think there's just so much potential, Um, and so much that the middle class and working class Americans can be trained for to innovate. And I think it's a it's... |
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...it's a it's exciting, you know, and I think again, it's something that that folks should feel excited about. Yeah, I mean we're now just at the point where we actually have a ship that can, in theory, take us to Mars right, and you know, the prospect of asteroid mining is really exciting when we talk about all the challenges and the conflict that occurs with rare earth minerals that we have we have to get here. And water. I mean look at the water in particular and being able to have different water reserves and energy propositions and so that we can value our planet from an environmental standpoint as well. Um, and so all of that should be inspiring. But space has to be inclusive, you know, it can't just be something that billionaires get to go to. It has to be aspirational, but it shouldn't. No one should be outpriced Um, and I think that's got to be part of the conversation as well. What I get excited about is is with all this advancement, like you said, there's there's more jobs. I get in so many conversations where there's this concern of automation, and I know you and I talked about this a little bit before, that it's going to get rid of all the jobs. But with with each new advancement, first of all, I think that takes way slower than everyone thinks and second of all, I think with each new advancement there's so many more jobs and opportunities that come up. Well, I mean this is what I was at the Guttenberg Bible. Uh, you know. I mean I think that might have put some some scribes out of out of work, but it also created other jobs for printers and printing presses, and so I think when you look at it from a historical analysis, you know, and I'll put on my doors current's Goodwin Cap, who I love. UH, historically speaking, innovation has when? When? The mission of innovation has been to be both inclusive... |
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...and to innovate. America has found success. When the mission has just been to make a buck. Well, you might make a few billion, but then your bottom line has other repercussions that are hurtful that to to the larger environment. Um. And so I think if the rate of innovation for transforming the American workforce can keep up with the technology innovation of automation and other UH technology that we've seen emerge, that has to be in balance. So you can have the best technology in the world, but if you're not training the workforce for it, then of course you're gonna leave so many people behind and that just that can't happen. Um. So the conversation has to be imbalanced. But it shouldn't be something that people shouldn't fear innovation when the mission, when it's mission focused and and coming from a place of again, inclusive, inclusivity and innovation. Yeah, I mean because technology is supposed to help humans. I feel like it's such an obvious thing, but I feel that we all forget it so, so, so often. Um. I'm curious, though, like when you say inclusivity and innovation, I'm creous for you to expand a little bit more on on what that means. It means that that the that the I mean it means that the jobs have to be able to be pitched to everyone. And so if our education system is flawed, if our education system at every level, you know, when I was a kid, I'd watch bill and I the Science Guy, I mean that guy, told me about all these different jobs that I had no idea that you could that you could apply for. But if the education system is not training folks, if we're training people to make cars with motors and we should be training people to make cars that are autonomous vehicles, or the chips and our phone, we're going to space, as you mentioned, to mind that has to keep up Um, otherwise the workforce is going to miss out. I mean... |
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...to your point, I'll never forget it's part of my fellowship. They put me in Arizona. I Love Arizona. It as hot as can. I can I say as hot as hell? I bet it was. It was genuinely hot as hell and it's a dry heat. It doesn't that's nonsense. It's it's such a Arizona. By the way, I love Arizona. It's genuinely my second favorite state in the Union, after my home state of Pennsylvania, Great Commonwealth. Um, but I they put us out there and I like they put us on like a bus and like you're in the in the middle of you're genuinely in the middle of nowhere, desert. No clue where I am. I go deep underground. They put me in like I love Lucy white chocolate suit thing where she's in the factory. You know, the hairnet, the gloves, the massive goggles. I mean it was really remarkable. All to keep dust particles out. That was the intention, is, so that they were building semiconductor chips, uh, deep underground and no particle of dust could get in it, because if it touches the chip then it screws up your technology. So, but what I learned was two things. First and foremost, there were engineers there. You know, I come from a family of engineers. My Dad's and engineer. Have A sisteries engineer, and they were legit manning the robots. Like I felt like I was in honey. I shrunk the kids almost, because there were these massive robots that were developing all of these semiconductor chips and Um, there were folks monitoring them and I'm like, these are high tech jobs, these are high tech manufacturing jobs. I didn't know these jobs existed. And then the second point that I would raise is that you can't look at the chip issue and not feel that chips are the new oil, because they are. I mean the demand for chips even in my lifetime, I'm thirty two in my lifetime it hasn't... |
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...gone like a gradual hill, it's like a vertical line of demand, because there's like what five or six chips in a smartphone, there's a couple of hundred in my laptop, a couple more hundred in my Peloton, a couple of thousand, and an airplane, couple multiple thousand and musk space rocket, and so you know, that is, I think, without question, one of the most important, uh defining, high tech issues of our time and it presents so many challenges. Um, and I think the public really needs communicators who can get out there and explain it in a very simple way, um, and it also in an optimistic way, so that people understand what's at stake. Yeah, it just makes it that much more important for us to be investing in the education systems to stay on top of these things. Um, you know, I remember, you know even me, when I was back in high school getting that list of jobs that you could do, and nowhere on there was hedge fund manager. By the way, I wish someone had told me that that was a possibility, but, you know, they didn't want it on the list. But the job I've been doing for the last twenty years certainly wasn't on it, you know, like digital strategy just wasn't even on there. And and that wasn't that long ago. And so it's it's a challenge to keep on top of it. And so we see like the you know, the top companies that are I see them investing in tech state craft as well as education, and they have their own outreach programs. But where I get excited is around that middle market, you know, the the lifeblood of the country, because these this is, you know, their their companies all over you know. I'm sure you encountered a ton of them when you were on the campaign trail. Um, you know, I wonder, you know, if you have any thoughts on how they're like, do they need to Steck step into tech state craft, like, do they piggyback off of what the big guys are doing or create their own consortiums? You know, how are they going to step into this? Well, I think well, I think that's the intersection of the public and the private... |
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...really becomes fascinating because, especially from a security standpoint and the systems and the networks that are backing a lot of these platforms, whether they're small businesses or medium sized or medium to large sized companies, they need that trust, that not just for their consumers, which they also need to build trust with, but also for themselves, that that the data, that the the the service, the goods and the products that they're developing that they can trust that it's not going to collapse on them or it's not going to be exposed to hostile foreign actors. You know, and quite honestly, we've seen how news media platforms have really struggled with that. You know, we've seen in the financial sector, we've seen it in the education sector, we've seen it in the UM health sector with hospitals, but in the media sector we've seen it as well. When Hustle or an actors are able to penetrate into a system Um and graffiti all over it with disinformation or misinformation. Uh, that can be incredibly problematic. So, Um, I would just say that the government uh is going to have to be able to find a way to support Um, those companies uh and in order to maintain that trust for for their products, and we've seen that and historically, over time to be developed. Yeah, the federal government's going to need to give them a better toolbox to be able to compete in that world. Right. You know, I remember one of the first data breaches that I covered was the target data breach. This was years ago and uh, I was at politico at the time and when it when it came out, I was covering the policymaker's response and it was fascinating because it seemed like at that time there had been a hack every day. You know, remember, like the Sony Hack and all these hacks Um,... |
| 00:24:00 - 00:26:00 |
...and they would end up on the front page of every newspaper, they'd go viral and and there was a real, from a shareholder perspective, of real reputational risk for companies to report that they had been hacked because there stocks would take a hit when it was reported and when when it was made public. And so what I've noticed over the last few years is that the government has had to be like no, we have to we have to encourage reporting so that we can understand where these attacks are happening, because it's not the foreign adversaries aren't just attacking government anymore. They're also attacked. Were under economic attack. You know, there's economic warcraft, so to speak, that occurs Um and companies have to be prepared for it. But you can't expect a small business in the Moyne or Delco, where I grew up, to be able to fend off Vladimir Putin from a you know what I mean? I mean, I mean. So how do you provide that support? Is definitely a conversation that's worthy of being had and it's needed. You know, I had I don't mean, by the way, there are a lot of guys in Delko who could take on Vladimir Patent. Oh, I don't doubt it. Um, you know, I've even had friends of mine that they used to do cybersecurity at a federal level. They're now out there consulting to those companies because those companies essentially have to have the same security as a sovereign nation, right, which is just yet again why that like that tech state craft needs to be part of all of these companies strategies and Um, because they they it's not just social, socialist national security and I know those companies. They really care about their country, right, they care about their people and they want to do it. They just need to you know, some of them are, you know, third generation family businesses. They just don't have the resources to be able to to. We've done it before and I think that's I totally agree with you. I think you're spot on. And what we've... |
| 00:26:00 - 00:28:00 |
...done it before, right. I mean even look at currency, you know, Um, a lot of folks my age never carry cash. Uh, you can pay with your Smart Watch now. and Um, and companies and small businesses when, when credit cards were introduced and all of these different payment platforms, they all had to adjust and be nimble and be out front and before focusing. It's just providing access to information and education. We talked about education of young people and Higher Education Services, but also just folks keeping up with transformation. Transformation education is, is, I think, something that that is that has to be included in this as well. I love the optimism there and I love looking back at at prior patterns and to the jobs thing. Look at every industrial revolution. You know the jobs are still there. You know, after each transformation. We've been able to get through it. So there's there's some real problems and some real challenge is out there, but we've done it and we can do it again. We just gotta keep our our eye on the right things and keep our foot on the pedal in the right direction. Yeah, and and I would just add, I think another everyone's talking about web three right. Um. And so I was just at a dinner in a Cafe Milano in Georgetown and, uh, you know, there was some is that? I mean, I love Franco. It's a shout out. I wouldn't say it was the great pizza, though, by the way. Um, and but one of my friends from the State's department was there and it was fascinating to hear their perspective on how there doesn't seem to be any news source or media source out there that's really specifically covering this Um and it feels almost alarming because it's what everyone is talking about in these... |
| 00:28:00 - 00:30:00 |
...goals, like the conversation that you and I are having, is tech statecraft, is tech diplomacy and understanding that and again finding that balance. And so it's I almost and I asked point planing. I'm like, well, where do you get your information? I mean, obviously they get their internals, but where do you get like, you know, the politician knows there's a million different things they can read, or a foreign policy can you know, there's a million different things you can read. But to really find out what's going on on the digital frontier, like what do you read? What do you watch, what do you listen to? Um, and so I think you're going to notice, I would predict, that there will be more platforms, there will be more outlets that that start to cover this in a in a smarter, more, uh, everyday approach way. MM HMM. Yeah, it is a lot of peer groups and a lot of, you know, conversations over dinner. But you heard it here, folks, Kevin and I are going to be launching the tech Statecraft News Media Network. No one can steal the idea, Janet. Is that what this is? Competition is good. Yeah, yeah, so I think that's a great point to end on. Is this conversation. It needs to be elevated more and more, Um, because the more we discuss it, the more it will just embed itself into all of these organizations in society. Kevin, one thing I love to finish on is, throughout all your experience interactions, what's the best advice you've ever received? Be Yourself, UM, which is the hardest advice but is really simple as well. You have to be yourself because if you're not yourself and you try to be someone that you're not, Um, it will always it'll just make you miserable. But also, I I think if you're in a communications role, the audience, whoever you're communicating with, will see right through it immediately if you try to, if you try to do the... |
| 00:30:00 - 00:31:00 |
...whole like, I don't know if you try to see the whole robot thing or the whole I don't know. You just gotta you just gotta be yourself. and Um, I think it's it's funny because the person who gave me this advice was just like a media booker, like ten years ago in DC and I was going on TV for like one of the first times ever. I was so nervous. First of all, I looked like I was twelve and I was so nervous and uh, and she just looked at me and she's like be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. And then I would say the second best advice I ever got was from one of my favorite teachers, my English teacher, who told me to keep my chin up nice. Well, I only ask for one, so I'm gonna edit out the second one. They're both poor. Mr Roper will keep it and I think they're both great. You gotta keep him, Mr Roper. He's a great guy. He's a great guy, Wonderful Kevin. Thanks so much for being here and I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me in. Congratulations on the success of your podcast. You've been listening to see sweet blueprint. If you like what you've heard, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you get your podcast to make sure you've never miss a new episode. And while you're there, we'd love it if you could leave a rado. Just give us, however mini stars you think we deserve. Until next time. |
